Tent Width Oct 25, 2006
Observations on Controversy Oct 24, 2007
First Impressions Dec 5, 2006
My previous post revealed the meaning and significance of an endorsement. To endorse literally means “to write on the back of,” and it implies the sanction or approval of all that is contained within the thing endorsed, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
I thought this picture was needed, just to remind everyone that the official SBC establishment blog, previously guilty of questioning the character and leadership of entity presidents, carries the endorsement of the men pictured.
This has further significance on a day when said blog has, without any shade of nuance, called one of those presidents, Dr. Paige Patterson of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, a liar.
I can hear the objections now:
“They were just endorsing conversation!”
“They’re not responsible for what we write!”
“They just think it’s important to exchange ideas!”
My response to such nonsense is in the form of two questions related to my previous post:
Wes Kenney
Tent Width Oct 25, 2006
Observations on Controversy Oct 24, 2007
First Impressions Dec 5, 2006
Connect with me on the following social networks:
volfan007 Jul 31 2007 - 9:47 am
wes,
aint it amazing that we’re hearing the same kind of junk on outpost that we heard on ben’s blog over and over and over and over and over again? and, i thought that this “news journal” was gonna be fair and irenic and respectful? what happened to that?
it’s sad to see a group of bloggers try to assasinate the character of two men who love the Lord and believe the Book. two men who have stood for the bible and have contended for the faith. and, just because they dont agree with these men on minor issues, or dont like the way they lead thier entities, or just have a personal grudge against them, then they feel the need to just attack these two men. how sad!
david
Reply
Jim Champion Jul 31 2007 - 9:48 am
Wes
The outpost backs up their statements, do you dispute the facts as presented over there or are we to lavish praise on Dr Patterson because of a meeting he coordinated in New Orleans years ago?
If you dont like what they said, go there and post your proofs to disprove the assertations presented on the outpost.
to tell you the truth, I hope Patterson stays at SWBTS for a long time, seminaries such as Logsden, Truett and BH Carroll Theological Institute are flourishing especially with a devisive president at SWBTS. I think those Texas seminaries would do well regardless, but every little bit helps!
Jim
Reply
Wes Kenney Jul 31 2007 - 9:55 am
Jim,
I cannot speak to Dr. Patterson’s comments about his relationship with Ben, but the jumping-off point for Duren’s attack on Dr. Patterson’s truthfulness was his statement that 500-600 people said something to him.
I attended the SWBTS luncheon on Wednesday of the convention. I was one of the last ones to enter the room, and Dr. Patterson greeted me at the door. There were more than 600 people in that room, and it is more than plausible that 600 people had opportunity to say something to him.
Reply
Debbie Kaufman Jul 31 2007 - 2:28 pm
And what of Paige’s response concerning his relationship with Ben ?
Reply
Wes Kenney Jul 31 2007 - 2:30 pm
Debbie,
You seem to have missed the very first words I wrote to Jim.
Reply
Paul Jul 31 2007 - 4:08 pm
Wes,
I caught the very first words you wrote to Jim. Nevertheless, I am still interested in whether you actually believe, given all of the words written and events of the past two years, that Paige Patterson had no more contact with Ben Cole than a car ride to a Franklin Graham event? I think Marty says that he’s seen the correspondence. He even quoted from some. He’s given other anecdotal evidence.
I guess it is the nature of the beast that we give a free pass to those we support while we hold to the fire those we do not. I’ll admit this goes on with both sides. But I’ll also admit it’s going on in this very post of yours.
BTW, when did Bart Barber’s blog become the official blog of the SBC establishment? Congratulations Bart!
Also, I would be interested to know if you believe the same about Peter Lumpkins’ endorsement of the Outpost. In case you’re wondering, we haven’t cashed his check yet.
Reply
Wes Kenney Jul 31 2007 - 4:20 pm
Paul,
I don’t see in Marty’s hit piece any assertion that a car ride was the sum total of Dr. Patterson’s contact with Ben.
I could say “I don’t recall how much time I’ve spent with Paul Littleton, though it wasn’t much. We ate lunch together in Tulsa once.” Would it be fair to say that that lunch was the only time you and I had interacted?
The fact is that Dr. Patterson is quoted as characterizing his time with Ben as having been “very little.” There is no fair way to claim that this is a lie, and such an accusation is only borne of bias and personal vendetta. Little, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
As to my link to Bart’s blog, I was afraid that I was being too subtle there. If you look carefully at the link, you’ll notice that the word “blog” is not included. The link is to the post where Bart recognized SBC Outpost as being the “Official Establishment Blog.” Probably not well executed on my part.
I must admit that I feel a little dense by this admission, but I don’t understand what you’re asking in regard to Peter Lumpkins’ comment. If you would be so kind as to restate it, I’ll be happy to give it a shot.
Reply
Jeff Richard Young Jul 31 2007 - 4:35 pm
Dear Brother Wes,
Please help me understand something here. Are you taking the position that these four prominent SBC leaders have in fact endorsed the SBC Outpost, or that they have not, and the SBC Outpost folks are wrong in saying that they have?
Love in Christ,
Jeff
Reply
Paul Jul 31 2007 - 5:15 pm
Wes,
I happen to think that there are “reasonable” parameters to the words “very little” that could likely be agreed upon. Or at least we would know when “very little” is actually not “very little.” If my bald-headed deacon and friend James were to be asked if he had lost any hair and his response was “very little” we would all recognize that to be patently untrue. If someone asked Junior Hill if he’d gained any weight since high school and he said, “very little” we would all know he was just poking fun at himself yet again. But we would not believe him to be telling the truth (he might not be a liar since he likes to kid about himself and he may be kidding). I do believe there is enough evidence to know if the amount of time Ben Cole spent with Paige Patterson could be deemed by any reasonable person as “very little,” so little it could be characterized in one car trip – give or take.
Actually, I got what you were doing with Bart’s blog – though it did take me a second.
As for Peter Lumpkins, that was probably my own poorly attempted connection. Peter’s first comment on Marty’s post is a glowing endorsement of everything on SBC Outpost (obviously tongue in cheek). It is obvious that Peter does not agree with everything on SBC Outpost or even in that article, yet he writes that he does. It was my way of asking if the endorsers of SBC Outpost must really agree with everything that is written just because they endorsed the overall purpose of the blog.
I guess a better analogy would be something like this: your church endorses you as their pastor, both implicitly and explicitly in that they called you there and they keep you there. Does that, by definition, mean that they would endorse everything that you have ever or will ever say and/or do? Can they generally endorse your leadership as their pastor without endorsing everything you every say or write? Do you endorse everything every Sunday School teacher in your church ever says in or out of the classroom? If you do not do you remove your endorsement from them and get a new teacher the moment you find something to object to?
Reply
Wayne Smith Jul 31 2007 - 6:06 pm
Wes,
Why do you want to put down these 3 Men of God who are upright and Holy???
Lessons on integrity
Thom S. Rainer Posted on Jul 31, 2007
http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=26164
In His Name
Wayne Smith
Reply
Wayne Smith Jul 31 2007 - 6:21 pm
Wes,
I encourage all Pastors as well as Laypeople to read Brother Jeff Richard Young’s Blog. I hear his sermons every Sunday and can attest to the fact that Jeff is a man Integrity, Holy, and Upright.
http://prayerandtheword.blogspot.com/
In His Name
Wayne Smith
Reply
Wes Kenney Jul 31 2007 - 8:50 pm
Wayne,
I’m not putting down anyone, I’m simply pointing out their actions.
By the way, I’ve listened to the audio of a sermon on the Ten Commandments that Bro. Jeff preached in my church. Does that count?
Reply
Tim Sweatman Jul 31 2007 - 9:25 pm
David,
It’s sad to see a group of trustees exclude God-called men and women from missionary service “just because they don’t agree” with them on “minor issues.” If these trustees had not decided to make such “minor issues” a test for service we would not be having these arguments.
**********
Wes,
When did “questioning the character and leadership of entity presidents” become wrong when the actions and words of said presidents warrant questioning? If the evidence reveals that Paige Patterson has been completely truthful in his statements about his relationship with Ben Cole, the situation involving Sheri Klouda, whether or not he sought to undermine Jerry Rankin’s leadership of the IMB, etc., then I am certain that a very public retraction and apology will be made from the Outpost. If the evidence shows that Patterson has lied, will those who have supported him provide a public apology for their “questioning” of those who uncovered the truth?
Reply
Tim Rogers Aug 1 2007 - 10:32 am
Brother Tim,
Ok, I will play the game. Did the author of the post present the questions to Dr. Patterson before publicly presenting the presumptions?
Let’s look at evidence. Brother Wes pointed to a flaw in the very beginning, which seems to be overlooked. Now everyone is pointing to a statement made in an article referenced on SBC Outpost with no active link for the reader to reference. Thus we are to take the word of the article’s author. It seems to this careful reader that the article did not get enough press [sic] coverage the first time so now we have reinvented the article to focus on statements that can be presented as “whoppers”. I was in one class with Ben Cole at SEBTS and if asked about my relationship with him I would down play it as much as possible myself.:>)
I say all of this to point to something else. The original article posted by Brother Wes, never called into question Brother Marty’s right to feel the way he does. It calls into question the open endorsements of leaders in our convention for such a vehicle as this that calls for other’s positions to be taken away. it seems this is the point of this post.
Blessings,
Tim
Reply
peter Aug 11 2007 - 8:08 pm
Wes,
Sorry I missed the comment in which our Paul alluded to my “endorsement” of SBCOutpost. I am actually taken back. Surely he did not think my satire was to be taken literally, do you suppose?
Grace. With that, I am…
Peter
Reply