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Posted on Sep 6, 2007 in Baptist Faith & Message, bloggers, SBC issues by Wes Kenney 20 Comments

Buy Vpxl No Prescription, Okay, so the title is just a ploy to generate traffic. For the record, 250mg Vpxl, Vpxl australia, I'm all for the "welcoming" part in the context in which that phrase is commonly used, but "affirming?" Not so much, Vpxl paypal. 500mg Vpxl, But that's not what this post is about.

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About the Author

Wes Kenney

Comments (20)

Scott Gordon Sep 6 2007 - 9:12 am

Wes,

Thanks for the post…I think. For the record, I welcome all and affirm biblical morality.

I hope our fellow SBC bloggers will stop by the new blog and sign their affirmation to our Southern Baptist confession of faith.

Sola Gratia!

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Paul Sep 6 2007 - 10:49 am

Critique and attack are two different things. No one in the referenced posts is “attacking” the BF&M.

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Jim Champion Sep 6 2007 - 11:36 am

I tried to add my comments to the stream – but since I do not affirm the BFM 2000 as it is written, or as it is used – as a club where it is needed to be used as a club, or as a minimum where those looking at it dont think it goes far enough, Scott deemed it inappropriate I guess to post my comment.

Scott wants to add the offices of pastor and deacon to the list of offices that can be held only by men – regardless that Phoebe was referred to as a deacon by Paul.

Some seem to want to go beyond what is currently written regarding the death penalty, regardless of the fact that the death penalty is only applied in the case of the poor who cannot afford good lawyers, and the number of supposedly guilty who have been found innocent when the DNA was examined.

But for you think that continuing to tighten the BFM is a grand idea, I say go for it. If you do, I think you will actually see SBCers rise up against the status quo for they will see what the resurgers wanted all along, and it is not fidelity to the innerant word, but power.

Yes I am a moderate that believes that the word is innerant in the origional manuscripts

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Debbie Kaufman Sep 6 2007 - 3:26 pm

What is the purpose of this?

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Wes Kenney Sep 6 2007 - 3:29 pm

Debbie,

Find the answer to your question in the first paragraph on this page.

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jasonk Sep 6 2007 - 3:35 pm

Man, you act like the BFM is the Bible or something. If you’re going to rise up and defend something, maybe your time would be better spent defending the inerrant and infallible Word of God, not the errant and fallible word of men.

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Scott Gordon Sep 6 2007 - 5:16 pm

Jim,

Your comment was disallowed because you chose to attack others and affirm nothing.

Debbie,

Let me summarize. If it’s a good idea for our seminaries, agencies, etc., then I believe it’s a good idea. Of course, I believe confessional accountability is a good idea, too.

JasonK,

If I spent time defending the true word of God, I would be verbalizing (or even penning) yet another confession for me to defend. Rather than re-invent the wheel, I choose to affirm what we as Southern Baptists have agreed to assert as our basic doctrinal, theological positions. Beyond the BFM, I study God’s word and take my stand (eschatology, soteriology…). SO, JK, I cannot defend the Bible without being confessional.

Should I just ask everyone to sign their Bibles in affirmation of the faith. My question is this: what would you then do with a Mormon (they are willing to sign an affirmation of the Holy Bible)? What would you do with a Jehovah’s Witness (they are willing to sign an affirmation of the Holy Bible)?

Sola Gratia!

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Scott Gordon Sep 6 2007 - 5:19 pm

Debbie,

Part of my response is unclear…(I hate it when that happens).

I was attempting to say, “If it’s a good idea for…then I believe it’s a good idea for us in the Baptist blogosphere.”

I’ll try to be more coherent next time:-)

sg!

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JIm Champion Sep 6 2007 - 6:55 pm

Scott

I guess we have two different definitions of attack, though if you feel I attacked anyone I do apologize. I try very hard to engage ideas – and yes attack ideas that I dont agree with (putting male only deacons requirement in the BFM), but not people.

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cb scott Sep 6 2007 - 8:34 pm

Wes,

Seriously, do you believe the BF&M 2000 is a document worthy of the divisiveness it has caused since its adoption?

cb

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jasonk Sep 6 2007 - 9:45 pm

With all due respect Scott, I think your argument will not hold water. The Mormons and JWs do not believe in the Bible like we do. I know you are aware of this. JWs re-wrote it, the Mormons added other books to it.
So, yeah, I think you can just sign your Bible if that makes you feel better.
To me, it comes down to one issue, the sufficiency of Scripture. 35 years in the SBC taught me at least one thing, that the SBC does not truly believe that the Bible is all you need. When I was a kid, it was MasterLife. Then it was Experiencing God. Then the Prayer of Jabez, etc. Now everyone is on the wagon of the BFM. I would never sign an affirmation of any doctrinal statement, because it is written by men who are not under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit. These may have been great men, but they were prone to the same sins and weaknesses as I am, which means they are imperfect.
The Bible is all you need–and you say so on your blog–sola Scriptura. But do you really believe that?

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Scott Gordon Sep 6 2007 - 10:06 pm

Jason, Jason, Jason,

Yes, I and my Baptist forefathers, and the great men of the Reformation ALL affirm sola scriptura (which by the way is a statement that was drafted by fallible men. To my knowledge the Bible was not written in Latin so that very phrase is a confessional affirmation you just made. Do you still wish to affirm that?)

Let me ask you something: When you preach do you simply read the text of Scripture and let it stand for itself…do you use commentaries…do you study the lives and messages of great preachers who have gone before you and use them to help clarify your proposition being asserted in your message? Why trust fallible men at that point and not at the point of affirming a confession of faith used to help elucidate your doctrinal position and application of truth to life?

Have you ever taken a position on Scriptural truth using modern English language? You are interpreting Scripture and making a statement of your faith. Is there no confession or creed with which you could identify? If not, why not write your own and start your own denomination since you cannot fit in anywhere else.

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Scott Gordon Sep 6 2007 - 10:13 pm

Jason,

By the way. I have noted many on the comment stream in the BFM2000Affirmation Blog who have stated areas of suggested improvement for the BFM. I don’t think we slavishly adhere to a statement. I believe each of those individuals to be thoughtful, reasoned people. No body just said, “Well, okie dokie, just tell me where to put my X and I’ll be on my way so I don’t have to do no more thinkin’”!

sg!

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Paul Sep 6 2007 - 10:17 pm

“I cannot defend the Bible without being confessional.”

Perhaps it’s just me, but that sounds EXACTLY like what a Roman Catholic would say. Or perhaps you could demonstrate for me the difference.

Thanks.

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Scott Gordon Sep 6 2007 - 10:23 pm

Jason,

One more thing (again). IN your reply to me you made my point. Certainly they (at least Mormons) would sign the KJV version of the Bible. Hey, they’ll even send you one if you just call their 800 number. Then they will give you a further book which they believe to be more important than the Bible, true. They add clarity to their position with a further statement. Our difference as Southern Baptists lies in the fact that our statement of faith is simply and exposition of Scriptural truth. Our only source of divine revelation is the B I B L E. Ever notice all the biblical references at the conclusion of each article?

What also of cults like David Koresh’s, Jim Jones, and others who claimed the Bible as their sole authority? How do we know to label them as heretics (a term which they rightly deserve)?

I know these three comments have been terse. I do not wish to berate, but I will not let such challenges go without answer.

By the way, Jason, do you have a copyright on that new song you posted at the blog? I was thinking of putting it on my next album.

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Scott Gordon Sep 6 2007 - 10:29 pm

Paul,

[Wes, I'm taking over your blog. It's mine now! *evil laughter*]

If you were to make a statement of your faith, explaining what you believed to be the truth taught from the Scriptures, what would you call it?

sg!

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jasonk Sep 6 2007 - 11:01 pm

Scott, I have no problem discussing what I believe about the Bible. I have no problem writing it down, or reading what others have written, or using those writings when I preach or teach or lead worship or whatever.
I am especially fond of John MacArthur. Once a fellow staff member said that he did not care for MacArthur, for various reasons. I did not insist that he sign an affirmation of MacArthur’s books. I did not refuse him employment because he and I disagreed on the teachings of Grace Community Church, or its revered pastor-teacher. I did not build an empire where I prevented missionaries from serving on the field if they disagreed, and professors from teaching in the seminaries.
I have no problem with believing in a doctrinal statement, I just think it is bordering on idolatry when you make such a big deal about it, when you make it an issue of fellowship, mutual ministry, and even employment.
Mormons do not believe in the sufficiency of Scripture, nor do JWs. The way some people are elevating the BFM, one might make the assumption that the SBC is the same way.
You are more than welcome to perform my song on your next album, but keep in mind that I am a working musician, so that means I will insist that you pay my publishing company the proper royalties.

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Scott Gordon Sep 6 2007 - 11:18 pm

Jason,

A story before my bedtime…

A Russian scientist and a Czechoslovakian scientist had spent their whole lives studying the majestic grizzly bear. Each year they petitioned their respective governments to allow them to go to Yellowstone to study these wondrous beasts.

Finally, their request was granted and they immediately flew to New York and then on west to Yellowstone. They reported to the local ranger station and were told that it was the grizzly mating season and it was much too dangerous to go out and study the animals.

They pleaded that this was their only chance. Finally the ranger relented. The Russian and the Czech were given cell phones and told to report in each and every day.

For several days they called in, and then nothing was heard from the two scientists. The rangers mounted a search party and found the scientists’ camp completely ravaged. No sign of the missing men.

They then followed the trail of a male and a female bear. They found the female and decided they must kill the animal to find out if she had eaten the scientists because they feared an international incident.

They killed the female and cut open the bear’s stomachâ€¦ only to find the remains of the Russian.

One ranger turned to the other and said, “You know what this means, don’t you?”

“Of course,” the other ranger nodded. “The Czech is in the male.”

SOLA GRATIA!

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jasonk Sep 7 2007 - 6:57 am

Well dang, Scott. One good bear joke deserves another.

There was a man hiking in the woods, when he noticed there was a big hungry bear on his trail. He started to walk faster, but the bear stayed with him. He began to run, but could not shake the bear. Finally, out of breath, he came to a sheer rock wall that was impossible to climb. A wall behind him, trees and hills to his right and his left, his only option was to pray and cry to God for help. “Lord, please let this bear be a Christian.” He turned around, and was surprised to see his prayer had been answered! The bear was bowing his head, closing his eyes, and folding his paws, as if about to say a prayer. The man listened closely to see if he could hear what the bear was praying. The bear humbly prayed, “Lord, bless this meal, to the nourishment of my body.”

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Scott Gordon Sep 7 2007 - 8:59 am

!

sg!

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